Discussion Response I

Write a brief response to our discussion today by REPLYING TO THIS TOPIC--CLICK ON "POST A RELPY."

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Minimum 200 words.

Due Sunday (9-23-12)

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This counts as your first post...

The discussion today was very eye opening; I got to hear what other people thought about the book and about Juniors life. I think the most interesting part about the discussion was the passage you read aloud on page 64. I liked this part because you brought up many points on how he felt and if its possible for us to be in that situation. In my opinion I do not this it is possible for me to physically and emotionally feel what Junior was feeling when Roger said those words to his face. Another part that I really connected to in the discussion was the picture that you showed of roger saying "I hate you", "you suck", and "you white lover". I have actually had someone say you suck to me, its a horrible feeling it brings you down in so many ways. You feel like you've disappointed everyone around you. This was not my best friend but it still hurt. The short scene in Smoke Signals was interesting to. It connected to the book so well; Juniors mom and dad were drunks just like the kid in Smoke Signals. Also the kid in the scene didn't really associate with his parents and neither did Junior. I like these discussions and i hope to have more.

Mackenzie A.

I really enjoyed todays talk. I liked hearing what everyone had to say about the book. I can not wait until the next one. I really liked when we connected our lives to the book, I think it made everyone realize that no matter how much we talk about Arnolds feelings and struggles, most of us can not really relate to his issues. I think that it helped me think about the book on a much deeper level. I really liked how you showed the movie clip, it really related to the book in so many ways. The pain that Victor felt when his dad left and how it translated into anger was similar to Rowdy and how alcohol really was a big issue in their lives. I thought that the points the other people in class had were very interesting and often were not something I had thought of. Again, I can not wait for the next discussion.

whoops! Didn't make the minimum! I liked that Mr. Jester chose a topic for us. I think that it if he had not we would have just gone to the same topics and points we have already talked about. I am curious to know what the other class cam up with and if our ideas were similar and what the differences were. I think it would be fun to mix classes sometimes so we could get everyones ideas.
Renée B.

I thought that the discussion today was, for starters, intense. I think that it would be wrong for me to say that I can imagine the kind of offence that Arnold felt when Roger made the racist joke. I have never been in a place where racism is really expressed or has felt really prominent. Not to mention that I am not part of a minority, in terms of race in a lot of places in the US. I think that for one to feel the same kind of offence as Arnold, they would have to come from a similar background. So even though I get offended sometimes, or I become defensive over a subject I think that it would be really hard to experience that same kind of pain.
Throughout that discussion, I was writing down the questions that Mr.Jester was asking because I thought that they were very powerful and personal questions. In the past in English class, we have discussed a lot of deep questions, but they usually were about the character and imagining what it would feel like, based on the emotions portrayed in the book. Or we had to explain how the character was feeling, by taking the emotion of the book and trying to describe it in 8th grade talk. I don't really feel like we have ever had to ask ourselves questions like the ones from the discussion today. Don't get me wrong, I think they were great questions to be asked and, although they made me and I'm sure a few of my peers go outside our comfort zone, I think that it was a great conversation or topic to explore.
In a way the discussion today was a bit humbling. Trying to think "am I really capable or in a position where I would or could feel this kind of offence" is really hard. In a a way it makes you realize how easy it is to say, "I understand" when a friend comes to you and tells you their problems. Can you really understand? Can you really relate?
With the cartoon drawing of Rowdy, it was interesting because people today say things like that jokingly to their friends, like "Oh, you forgot it was my birthday, you suck." and it reminds you that words such as "you suck" are very powerful words that you need to be careful with because it can really hurt, like it did when Rowdy said them to Arnold.
I thought that re-watching the scene from Smoke Signals really helped you understand the movie. When you read or watch something a second time, you get more out of it. Plus it was right after we had had the long discussion about the DTR, and it helped you to see things from a different perspective.
I thought that over all, the discussion was very meaningful and helped to get a deeper meaning from the movie, and the book. By trying to understand the feelings he was going through, it helped you to realize how awful Arnold's life was and how amazing it was for him to leave the reservation and seize control of his own life.

Today's class discussion was one of the strongest discussions I have ever had. I didn't talk that much in the discussion, but rather listened to my peers ideas and Mr. Jester's. Mr. Jester began the discussion with a moving DTR containing words I have never heard a teacher say in my life. Afterwards, when we began to talk about Juniors position with the Reardan bullies, I tried to put myself in his shoes. I for one have never been in a fist fight, or ever been moved to even think about punching someone in the face. To Junior however, it is the way of life to fight. He gets harrassed constantly and called racist things like in the DTR Mr. Jester read. To me it is just impossible to fully imagine his postion because of how sheltered I am at Woods and how I have been able to grow and learn in a fairly safe enviroment. Today is the closest though, that i have been able to think about his position. Everyones comments and ideas made me think about his life and how he struggles to survive and hold on to hope. All in all, todays discussion was very moving and made me think about things I have not thought about before. I hope we continue to have more of these moving discussions so that we can be more open minded and learn other peoples ideas.

The discussion we had yesterday was very helpful and insightful. It really helped me understand other people’s points of view on the book. Moreover, it gave me different ways to look and think about the scenes in the book. Not only did it give me insight into the book, but it also helped me connect the book, to the average struggles teenagers have in our lives. Before the discussion, I did not think that the book related to me at all, but afterwards I felt as if I was more like Junior then I thought.

One of the parts of the discussion that really stood out to me was when we looked at the picture on page 53. It was the picture of Rowdy yelling thinks Junior after he told him that he was going to Reardan. After this Rowdy yelled hurtful things at Junior such as “I hate you!” “You Suck!” And “You white lover!” I thought that him saying these were much more hurtful then the punch Rowdy threw at him afterwards. It was not just the words themselves that hurt Junior. In my opinion it was who the words were coming from. In addition, I have been in fights with my best friends before and I know that nasty things have been said, and I remember how painful it was. So I can imagine how Junior felt after his best friend, his only friend said those things.

Overall, I think the discussion went very well in my eyes, and it really deepened my level of thought. I only hope now that we can more and greater discussions that can take us far more in-depth in any book we are reading.

~ Jane Williford

I enjoyed our discussion yesterday. It was a whole lot different from what I am used to but overall it had a good meaning to it. We had really gotten down and learned what it was like for Junior. Most of us don't have to deal with this, but while reading the book hearing how racist people could be. Junior said that was the most racist think he had ever heard and the same was for me. The discussion helped me realize how lives can be for people especially when you are a minority. I consider myself a minority because of our low number of African Americans in our school. I don't have to deal with racism but I could imagine what it would be like if I was the only minority and if people did treat me bad. I feel comfortable at Woods and I would hate it if I had to leave. I just wonder why they would treat Junior that way when he had done nothing to offend them. The discussion about the DTR made me understand why fights may happen and why people treat people bad. They think it's funny then when Junior punched Arnold in the face he bled and started giving Arnold respect. Eventually you have to stand up for yourself because you cannot live with that forever.

Caleb S

I think yesterday's discussion was very meaningful. Even though I didn't say anything, what other people said really got me thinking. As inappropriate as Roger's joke is, it demonstrates how easy it is to be really mean to someone and how serious bullying can sometimes be. The discussion really became powerful when we started making connections between Reardan and Woods. Our school has mostly white kids, and we just got a exchange student from China. I started connecting Arnold's feelings to how Thomas might feel in a school full of strangers. I hoped that the people from China didn't hate Thomas for going to an American school the way Rowdy hates Arnold for going to a white school.

I also thought about the comparison of Arnold as a white kid at Reardan and Arnold as an Indian at the reservation. It reminded me of the cartoon he draws later in the book of him on the basketball court as an angel and as a devil, thinking, "Who am I?" At Reardan, Arnold has hope, positive role models, and a bright future. As an Indian, he has an alcoholic father and has been to forty two funerals. The positive influence of the kids at Reardan helps Arnold persevere and not give up hope. I look forward to our next meaningful discussion.

Wednesday’s discussion was very blunt, I appreciated the lack of beating around the bush. The discussion gave us a genuine look into a topic that we haven’t looked very far into. We’ve heard about bullying, both physical and emotional but never really talked about if we were able to feel the pain or hurt that Junior or anyone who has been treated like that felt. As Mr. Jester read through the scene you could feel the tension in the room, almost reach out and touch it. It was an uncomfortable tension, almost like we didn’t know how to react. I have no idea what it’s like to feel like Junior did, I can only imagine. Yes, there have been times I’ve wanted to hit or punch someone very hard because of something someone said about me or my family but no one has ever degraded me because of my race or ethnicity. I feel like that has a much deeper meaning then insulting someone because of how they look or act. So, the topic was at least awkward for me. But I also felt like it was a necessity to talk about it because of the book we were reading. There were many heavy topics in that book, this one included. I think it’s important to remind each other that most of us are very lucky to not be treated like that daily or at all.

I really enjoyed our discussion. It was really eye opening to me, and I think to most everyone else too. The passage you read from "PTI" was a great discussion topic because it really shows how different life is off the reservation. When we were talking about the thing Roger said to Junior I do not think anyone could relate to it very similarly just because we are not part of a huge minority that is heavily misunderstood like Junior is. I really liked when you asked us if anyone was part of a minority because I think that in some way just about everyone is part of one whether it be racial or not.
The discussion we had on why Roger said that thing to Junior really did get me thinking, and I think that Roger was testing Junior mainly, I think that Roger did not really think about what he was about to say and did not realize how incredibly offensive it was. I think if the school got a new white kid instead of Junior, Roger still would have found away to test them. I think in a sense Junior passed the test considering Roger never said anything negative to Junior, and was pretty friendly to him.
The part where Rowdy calls Junior a "white lover" I think is more or less Rowdy being hurt than Rowdy actually hating Junior. I don't think Rowdy actually hate Junior at any part of the book but I think he does feel sort of betrayed. I mean who wouldn't though, especially in Rowdy's situation. Rowdy has alcoholic and abusive parents, he's either hated or feared throughout the school, and then all the sudden his best friend decides to leave the Rez, and I am sure that after this Rowdy feels abandoned, and that is why, I think, Rowdy reaches out to Junior at the end of the book. The end was my favorite part because its a good ending, and what I feel is the perfect ending to this book. It really calms down the reader because I know I am not the only one who constantly thought to themselves: "when are Junior and Rowdy going to be friends again?" It also is a good way to end because I think there are lots of people who go through hard times with their best friends and I think that if there was a sequel to this book Rowdy and Junior would be even closer than they were at the start of this book.
This book is one of my favorite books just because it is a great mix of humor, sadness, and is very realistic. I also love this book because so many people can relate to it in one way or another. We can look at this book and see Junior go through things that we have gone to and see him go through things that would break any person emotionally and we can see that whatever we've gone through, if Junior can keep fighting so can I.

-Tommy Johnson

Our discussion the other day was our second REAL 9th grade English book discussion. I think this times topic was a very intense subject, especially pg.64's read-aloud by Mr. Jester. I felt that when Mr. Jester said that one specific line we aren't going to ever repeat, the room fell silent for a couple seconds and then some people dealt with the akwardness, I guess it was, by laughing, other by putting their heads down and not really knowing what to do. I feel like when something that rude and cruel comes out of anyones mouth whether its just being read out of a book or actually said by someone, it doesn't matter people are always going to be shocked someone said those words. I also feel like I can't even come close to comparing any situation I have been in to the one Junior was in at that time, nothing even remotely compares. I can't really even imagine how that felt for Junior. It's astonishing how plain mean some people can be sometimes. In this case I feel like there was no other way to deal with this kind of problem that violence was an okay decision. How else would he have managed to get his point across that treating him like garbage isn't okay? I would have never used violence, however I see why he did.

The discussion on Wednesday was very enlightening for me. The passage read aloud was one that, when I read it, I only briefly noted before moving on to the rest of the book. Roger and his relationship to Junior is one the most interesting parts of the book. In this passage and during our discussion it is clear that Roger is considered by Junior the king of the school. Roger lead a racist and shockingly rude verbal attack against Junior. During the discussion, some felt Roger was just being mean, others that he was trying to see what the newcomer was made of. The first part of the discussion was on how Junior responded to this attack. Many thought that Junior did the right thing by punching Roger in the face. After all Roger had said a shocking and racist thing. Others, like me thought differently and were slightly confused. Punching Roger was understandable, and put a stop to Roger’s teasing, but was not something thought out and broke the schools unspoken rules. However, Junior punching Roger was a reflection of the conditions in which he grew up and I think it hard and maybe unfair for anyone who hasn't gone thru what Junior went thru to judge him.
The second and much shorter part of this discussion was on how what Rowdy said to junior was different than what Roger said. the main difference was between your best friend and a complete stranger insulting you. The first really hurts Junior, the second just made him angry. I found it helpful to hear others opinions on the book and changed my mind on several assumptions I wasn't aware I had an opinion on before Wednesday.

I think that the discussion was very interesting. People brought up many good points and good ideas. When we talked about what Roger said to Junior that was racist it just made me feel a little uneasy because the joke was so cruel and wrong. I really wanted to pop into the book, knock Roger out, then pop back out of the book. I don't really think Junior would need my help though because he stood up for himself and it was important because he has been beaten down by his own tribe at the reservation for so long he needed to rise up at Reardon. On top of being the minority at school he also had Rowdy abandon him, the only person that was stood up for Junior. I can't blame Rowdy for being a little angry at Junior. His best friend left him and he felt completely empty. He has such a hard life, he doesn't really know how to show Junior something other than his tough guy persona. I think overall it was great talking about it with the group though. I can't wait for more class discussions! I have always enjoyed discussions in Mr. Herschthal's class and I have a feeling that this year will be a great year for it too.
Ben P.

I found that Wednesday's discussion allowed us to dive deeper into the inner workings of Arnold's life. Just in the passages that we looked over on page sixty-four, we were able to discover much about how Arnold has issues with people both on and off the reservation. What I personally benefited from the discussion was listening to the different thoughts and observations that people had regarding both the passages we read in class as well as the whole book that we read at home. I enjoyed witnessing how other people reacted to some of the pages that we went over that contained some controversial subjects and wording. It is always a delight to listen to the views and opinions of others when it comes to books, but more so with this book due to its content, the subjects in which it encompasses, and the issues that it brings into the light. Any discussions about books such as this one are bound to spawn difficult questions as well as equally difficult answers. I personally feel that this is a very good book to test one's ability to create and answer questions that would not normally be thought of during most books.

Our First Post









The discussion we had in class was very eye opening. I really got to hear everyones ideas and thoughts. I like when Mr. Jester read the passage out loud. He really brought out the emotion that was in the writing and really made it feel real. Having people making racist jokes about you and your ancestors hurts. Not just like falling down and scrapping yourself, it really burns deep. The hurt goes to your soul. But if its the right things to stand up and use violence against the insults is really up to the victim. They can just shake it off or they can fight back and show that they will not bow down, and let people walk all over them. Another part of the discussion was when Rowdy shouted at Junior “ I hate you,” “You suck,” “You white lover.” I mean everyone has had someone say “You suck ” to them before but, when someone says I hate you and white lover that really different. Those take a long time to heal and having the alcoholic parents always drunk and stumbling around doesn't really help you get better. The discussion really opened the reality that there really are people out there without a place to live or food on the table. It showed me that I should really be happy for what I have even if I can't have everything new.

The discussion we had in class was interesting unlike a lot of ones there have been in classes before. I really liked how it was almost completely serious the whole time. It was neat to hear peoples differing opinions and see all the tension and sometimes discomfort in the room. Though i didnt speak too much during the discussion i was listening a lot because the topic is definitely an interesting one and i liked to see different peoples views. There was a lot of listening in the room and from looking around most everyone was involved either by speaking or intently listening and taking in what they heard. I almost regret not talking more because i'm sure if i did i would have remembered all of this in much greater detail. The whole thing really made me think about how hard some people had it. It was also a bit strange when people were taking about how sheltered woods is and it made me realize how true that is and i really wonder what it is like at other schools in other places. The image responses were useful, making us think more about those parts of the book. Over all i think it was a really good discussion and i think it should become more of a regular thing.

I feel this discussion was a great step in understanding the true meaning behind this chaotic book. It showed a lot of people just how terrible Arnold has it, and how hard it is for him to be the only indian on the res. to be going to a all white school like Reardan. I liked all the great DTR that was brought up all perfect examples of the hardships everyone on the reservation had to deal with. For example when Arnold talks about how he has been to so many funerals while the kids he knows at Reardan have maybe been to one if that. I also loved the point that was brought up about Arnold punching Roger in the face and then once Roger did nothing and called him an animal Arnold was utterly confused as he reviewed the rules that he learned on the res. he didn't understand why he didn't get beat up worse than he could imagine. It shows just the difference between the two lives and how separate they are and once they are together they don't have a clue what to do with the person considered different. Yet they become great friends odd friends but still friends none the less.

The discussion on wednesday was pretty tense, considering what a sore topic it was on. When Mr. Jester read the first DTR aloud, I wasn’t really sure how to react, so I just kept my head down, as did many people. Hower, when I had read it in the book on my own, I gave it very little thought, and moved on. I’m glad that we discussed it, because it made me think about it’s importance and also hearing how other people thought about it help me form my own opinions on it. I think that the way Junior reacted was acceptable, because I don’t think Roger is the kind of person who would listen to Junior if he was to just talk to him, Junior needed to do something to really get his attention so that he could demonstrate that he wasn’t going to let someone talk to him like that. I can’t really relate though, because I have never been a situation even close to this, and I probably would not resolve to physical violence, but I can understand how someone would.
On the other DTR, the one where Rowdy was calling Junior a “White lover” and telling him that he hates him and he sucks, I imagine that, that was Rowdy’s way of showing how hurt he was. I don’t think that he really meant the things he said, he just wanted Junior to feel as hurt as he did. Also, he didn’t want to seem weak, so insulting Junior was his way of covering up his true feelings.

-Jennifer P.

The catcher in the Rye is a great book. Every part of the story has a hidden meaning and you have to read the entire book before completely understanding what the author was implying. You really have to sit down and read the book at a slow pace to achieve the full message. One of my favorite things about the Catcher in the Rye is that it allows you to understand what the character is feeling, just like in the book The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian. Both writers make it very clear what the character is thinking.
One theme that I enjoyed though out the read was the theme of the duck pond. Early on in the piece of literature Holden Caulfield makes a comment about the pond. He explains how he wonders where the ducks go in the winter. He never really achieves an answer to this dying question but by the end of the book you finally realize that the author was having Holden Caulfield use the duck pond as a symbol of his died brother, Allie. He just figures if he had known where the ducks went then he could understand where his brother went to. Allie caused Holden to be who he is, Allie created Holden Caulfield whole personality. Every since Allie passed away Holden Caulfield tried not to get attacked to anyone around because he can not stand to see anyone leave him. Overall The Catcher in the Rye was a very interesting piece that all different types of people could find something enjoyable in.
-Alexandria Blake

I thought Wednesdays discussion was very eye opening and tense. At first I didn't make much of the DTR but after everybody else started saying their opinion on it I began to think. It made me really think about the line and to understand it better. I thought it was really sad how rowdy was saying that he hated junior and that he sucked, and calling him a "white lover" because they are best friends and I know I would feel bad if my friend said that to me. Junior is just trying to get a better education and be able to work better with the whites. Even thought he was just sad and it was a lot for rowdy to take in he should have thought about what he was saying first and should have said sorry sooner. Rowdy also probably didn't want to seem weak, so instead of crying he put junior down. I am glad they became friends again in the end. The other DTR when Junior punched Rodger I thought it was acceptable because what Rodger said was unexceptable. In class when we had the discussion somebody said that he probably just said it and didn't really think about what he was saying or how racist it was but I agree with that person. I thought that person made a really good point and Junior was just trying to stick up for the native americans, the blacks, and the buffalo like he said in the book.I really like the discussions because they help me to see through another persons eye, metaphorically. and it is very interesting what others think about it.

My first thought after the discussion on Wednesday was wow that was interesting; I thought this mostly because of how intense the discussion was. The depth and emotion was increased by Mr. Jester reading passages out loud that on their own where already very passionate. I believe the strength of the feelings Arnold expressed made it difficult for everyone to relate. We could imagine how he felt, but we could not express it. I found it arduous to try to relate how I feel to the emotions Arnold felt when he was insulted or told he sucked by his best friend. Everyone had a different reaction to the class, because everyone has had different experiences that allow them to relate. The topics that we discussed were all very moving, and most people had only slightly scratched the surface when first reading them. Wednesday’s class had left everyone something to consider, whether it was how this affects their life or their PTI project. Through out the conversation everyone had their own way of expressing their discomfort or realizations. For some people they found it necessary to comment wile others remained quiet. Over all the discussion was very interesting, and I’m glad to have herd it. Feels like one more step away from 8th grade and into 9th.

I think the discussion was eye opening. It was great to hear other people's opinions about Junior's situation and relate them to my own. At first I thought "I don't know what to say or how I feel about this" but then people started talking and I really agreed. When I read this scene in the book I didn't know how to react to it. It was so shocking what Roger said to Junior because of how ridiculously racist it was. I'm glad Mr.Jester chose that scene to read to us (p.64) because it's Junior's first day at Reardan and his first encounter with a bully outside of the rez. I also was glad to see Junior react to it and stand up for himself. He really needed to stand up to himself and see himself as more of an equal rather than someone who was completely out of place. And really even though hitting people is wrong I think that was the best thing for Junior to do in that situation. In the second DTR I felt really bad for Junior because he and Rowdy were best friends and I wouldn't call my best friend "A White Lover!" or say to them "I hate you!" and "You suck!" just because they were changing schools. Rowdy wasn't being fair to Junior by saying that stuff to him just because he wanted to leave the rez. I mean Junior still lives on the rez and it's not like Rowdy will never see him again. There are other way's Rowdy could have reacted.
~Sarah A

The discussion that was held on Wednesday was on the most heated parts in the book. These were the violent conflicts caused by exploding emotions and left the characters confused and pained. The first one on page 63 was when Junior told Rowdy that he was going to the all white school called Reardan. Rowdy started yelling upsetting things like “White-lover” and “I hate you”. Hearing these words from your best friend cuts you deep and hurts much more then I would if a stranger had said it to you. It doesn’t have to be out loud to feel the pain in rowdy’s voice. He was hurt and the emotions just couldn’t stop. Losing your one good thing, your hope hurts and that is what rowdy is feeling. Rowdy gave up his dream but junior still had his and rowdy protected him for that. But when Junior said he was leaving everything he was trying to protect was leaving. What is the purpose if your one hope is gone? Rowdy punched Junior because there was no purpose anymore. He was overwhelmed and damaged. Left alone with no aspirations or ambitions. Alone to die with all the other Indians with lost dreams. The other DTR that we touched upon was when Junior punched Roger on page 65. All the emotions from people calling him names and making fun of him were bottled up and when roger took it to far he blew up with fury. Junior punched him but didn’t stop there he want to fight more because he was following Indian fighting rules but roger wasn’t having that. This confused Junior and showed him just how different things were at Rearden then on the rez. He felt like an alien on their planet. This place was the opposite from the rez and he doesn’t know ‘the rules’. This discussion was important and opened up a lot of emotion in the book. I hope we continue to do many meaningful discussions that open our eyes to others opinions.

Moriah T

This discussion was a great way to go over some of the parts we hadn't already covered in the first discussion and i felt as if the quote chosen describing Arnold being taunted by Roger perfectly captured this. Where the first discussion had mostly centered around the positive events that happened to Arnold, such as how lucky he was to be met with such optimism upon joining the basketball team and how much hope he was surrounded with. This discussion was able to perfectly capture the parts of the book where there is no perfect solution to Arnolds problems such as with Rogers extremely offensive taunts. I think that in the end punching Roger was the right decision because even though you would expect Roger to just treat Arnold like more of an outsider for playing by a different set of rules he actually very quickly begins to help bring him in to the atmosphere of the new school. It seems as if he respects him for standing up for himself as well as not acting like others act by using words but instead relying on what his own background taught him and using action. This discussion was also a great opportunity for us to make our first self reflections on how we would act in any given situation that Arnold had to face and overall gave us the chance to connect with the book on a deeper level.